MyMomsOutbackXT

So I'm rebuilding my engine ATM.

When taking valve lash measurements I realized many of my valves would require a bucket shim that is even smaller than a 438 (The smallest Subaru makes) One of my cams is even touching the buckets.

After talking to a mechanic buddy, he said it's likely that the cam journal has just been worn down due to use (They have almost 200k on them) and that I'd probably just need new cams.

He also said it was possible the valve seats and cam journals had been machined too far on the heads and I would need new heads which would suck.

I was thinking it may be possible to buy just the cam that is touching the buckets, and then use a drill press to file down the other buckets that are too close but not touching on the other cams. But my guess is that wouldn't be safe, so I probably won't.

What's the best solution for this? Buying all new cams? Taking it to a machine shop and seeing if they can cut the valve stems to size?

Thanks for any help

Not sure if any of those that replied have subbed, but I'll hope you all have because I'd like some feedback.

I'm thinking of maybe just shooting for 350whp instead. If I do this, would I be fine on the regular 'ol Type RA pistons? They're already out of the block, and I already have the forged pistons at my house. But I don't want to put in forged pistons that aren't gonna last if I'd be fine on the stock pistons.

If I do use the Type RA pistons I'll open up the ring gap of course since they're already out of the car.

If I swap in forged pistons and still keep it at 350 whp, would the block last just as long despite expansion issues seen with forged pistons?

Basically the car will be a weekend car, but I'd like to drive it nice and hard on the days I do take it out. Canyon runs, flexing on friends while we cruise, etc. Don't wanna feel like I have to baby it while driving. That being said, maintenance wise, it will be babied. Always fresh oil, won't stand for any kind of leak or CEL without fixing it before the next drive, etc.

I have a v2 outfront closed deck block with forged pistons, clearanced to 35 over. I put 29k miles on the engine at the track and street. Piston slap is a thing until warm, however, Its not for me. I idle until engine is low-end of warm, then ease on out until actually at operating temp. From then on, I tend to be in 3000-5000 rpm range. I changed the oil when it got dark, probably averaged every 1000 miles. I used chevron 15-40 turbo diesel non synthetic oil. I got a blackstone analysis every 5000 miles to check. On track, I ran slicks. On the street, I ran Michelin SuperSports. Replaced street tires every 7500 miles.

 

If you previously drove a honda or some other vehicle that allowed you to start and go, your forged engine build isn't going to be a fun experience. Expect longer warm up time and more regular oil changes also a better gas choice.

 

For the average owner, forged is not needed. If 90% of your driving is just driving stop go normal stuff, forged is a waste of money. One of the supporting mods is a custom tune and a good cooling system.

I do of course plan on allowing my car to properly warm up, using Motul 5w-40, and doing oil changes every 2-3k. Wouldn't be pushing 400whp all the time, but would want to be able to do it every now and again without fearing the block will blow up after every pull.

with a moniker of "mymomsoutbackxt", I'm guessing you're not the target audience of forged pistons. If you are, get the closed deck upgrade with your forged pistons.

Haha nah my username is just a joke since an OBXT is kinda a mom car. I'm shooting for 400whp, and the car isn't my DD. (Yes I have read the "are you sure you want 400whp" threads). Don't quite trust the type RA pistons from the shortblock I bought. But also don't wanna throw in forged slugs for the block to only last 20k miles.

Honestly, the best answer isn't going to come from anybody here or any forum. Get in contact with both IAG and Outfront Motorsports and ask them. I'd have to guess together they build hundreds of forged EJs every year.

 

They'll have a pool of data and experience big enough to give you what I would call true information.

Good thinkin. I sent them an email. Only reasons I didn't send one earlier is because I'm expecting the answer to be "Depends on how the car is driven/maintained. Can't give an estimate" and that's that.

The reason I came to the forum is I was hoping for a large pool of info, so that me and any others with the same question can find people with a similar build/maintenance habits/diving habits and extrapolate an estimate from that.

Okay so there is many articles and forums out there stating that forged pistons decrease engine longevity due to the piston slap you get on startup. But how much of a difference it makes is really largely up for debate, so I figured, with a collection of car enthusiasts where installing forged pistons is basically a right of passage as big as the subie community, it would be a waste not to pool all this data.

So my question is, how far did your engine run/has your engine run with forged pistons? At how much HP? Which brand were they? Which size? and how hard do you drive your car? The Poll provides nice general info but I'd love to get some more detailed responses. Let's get to the bottom of this!

If you are referring to christensen oil in orem and provo, their e85 has never measured over 72% and that is during the summer months. In winter months it hovers around 58%. A buddy has measured it every week while filling his truck in hopes of getting away from e85 barrels. On the upside, I use it to cut my e100 as it goes much further this way and the mixed octane is higher as opposed to diluting with 91 pump.

 

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Yeah, I've heard that. Kinda why I'm leaning towards meth rather than e85. If only we lived in a state that had e85 o'plenty.

I have some low mile Manley drop-ins for standard B bores sitting around if you decide to go forged

 

I've seen 5 RA shortblocks since they became available, all were BBBB.

Sent you a PM regarding pistons

This cars are fun to drive and reliable with less HP. Why don't you shot for 350whp and be happy with a quick, reliable, car

I might just go for 350 and save myself the headache. 400whp has been a long-time goal of mine but I'm considering giving it up. It seems like no matter what it's hard to have a reliable(ish) 400whp Subaru. Go with a built block, sacrifice longevity, or go with a stock block, and run the risk of blowing it. It's tough.

Thinking of maybe getting 2 tunes, both on meth, 1 at 350whp that I would run 85% of the time and another at 400whp for special occasions. Get the best of both worlds.

I've been running forged CP pistons on the street for 8 yrs now... I built my engine in April 2013. Over 100k on it right now. It's noisy and burns more oil than a stock piston setup, but it's lasted this long. Really can't say anything bad about it other than the excess noise from them.

This is reassuring to hear, thank you. Maybe I will go with forged pistons after all. Still having a really hard time making up my mind

IMO that 5eat is the weak spot from what I've read.

Got the IPT valvebody in my 5EAT, hoping that'll help keep it together

Do you have access to E85?

I wish. Live in Utah, only e85 pump is an hour away

Okay, I've been reading so many forums that say so many things and I truly can't make up my mind.

Here's my story. I have a 2007 OBXT that I recently decided to rebuild with the goal of 400whp with FBO and an FP Blue. I opted for the new Type RA Block that has been rumored to be able to hold that level of power very well. I then did enough research that scared me into wanting forged pistons, but then read numerous threads stating forged pistons wear down cylinder walls and such on cold starts and that you really can't expect a long lasting engine with them. They're more made for cars that are towed to a track, beat up, and then towed home a few times a year.

Now I want to go with Meth injection to reach my goals, but this leaves me terrified that I will spend all this time and money on my engine just to get ringland failure or something due to stock internals. I guess I'm just looking for some general input and advice on what the knowledgeable people on this forum think I should do.

Over the last few weeks I've been working on replacing my shortblock in my 2007 OBXT. This would be my first engine pull. My cousin, who has pulled and rebuilt countless Subie Engines and I wrote this writeup on everything you need to do when pulling the engine. A lot of stuff is very redundant or obvious, but as the title says, this is for engine pulling virgins who might need all the little extra tips. We wrote this to apply to all EJ Cars, NA or Turbo, MT or AT, so please enjoy, and add any tips you feel would help!

Overall, removing a subaru block is very easy. Slightly time ocnsuming the first time, but not rocket science. I'd label EVERY hose/wire you disconnect, even if you feel you know the engine very well. It's quick and easy insurance.

BEFORE STARTING: HAVE YOU

Drained Oil,

Drained Coolant

Pulled the Fuel Pump Fuse, started the car, and killed all Fuel Pressure?

• Remove battery and airbox assembly
  
• Remove intercooler (If turbo), and disconnect pitch stop mount
  
• Detach the AC compressor and PS Pump and move to the side (No need to discharge either one)
  
• Remove and label fuel lines
  
• Detach the two main harness connectors on the passenger side of the motor and the two relay connectors on the passenger side wheel well, as well as grounding wires under the engine.
  
• Disconnect throttle and cruise cables and (if manual transmission) clutch cable from slave cylinder as it runs under the intake to the transmission
  
• Remove heater core coolant hoses and drain and remove radiator & hoses
  
• Remove starter
  
• If manual, Screw alternator bolt into service port on side of transmission to disengage the clutch fork.
  
• Disconnect exhaust manifold (Or Downpipe if turbo) and unbolt the motor mounts
  
• Jack up the transmission enough to clear the motor mount studs (may have to loosen the transmission mount on the crossmember)
  
• If auto transmission, disconnect the torque converter bolts
  
• Unbolt bottom bolts that mate the transmission to the block
  
• Put your hoist in the engine compartment and give the motor enough tension to slightly lift it and remove remaining tranny/block bolts/nuts.
  
• Use pry tool to break the two apart, pull forward and remove the engine.
  

At this point you're ready to pull the engine. Remove the engine by attaching the hoist to any bolt with a lot of support, people commonly use the A/C bracket, and the turbo heat shield bracket. You'll see some big ol' holes with lots of reinforcing materials on both of these brackets.

When pulling the engine, I like to have a second pair of eyes to make sure I'm not hitting or tugging on anything I shouldn't be. I'd be especially careful of the o2 sensor in the exhaust manifold, it likes to hit the frame. It takes some maneuvering to get the engine to clear the transmission, a lot of up, out, up more, out more, etc. movement of the hoist. You wanna make sure the hoist isn't pulling up too hard, otherwise it'll create friction and make it hard to pry away from the transmission bolts. You also don't want it too low, for the same reason. It's a balance, I just raised/lowered it, pried, repeated, until it came off. You'll feel what works,

The following only applies to those of you with a 4EAT or 5EAT

Below is some generally unorganized tips I've found on forums about removing the flexplate

Going into this I was real worried about this part which is why I collected a bunch of methods for disconnecting it, but it turned out to be very easy. I just laid across the top of the block, and used a 12mm socket on a ***8540; ratchet. Came off fairly easily. Didn't need any special extensions, didn't need to remove the intake manifold, etc. Don't let these scare you. One thing that doesn't seemed to be mentioned on forums, atleast I didn't see any mentioning it, you have to rotate the crank bolt to get each bolt to appear in the service port at the top.

Unbolt the FP from the TC with the engine still in the car. This will allow the two to separate and make the removal much cleaner. You also won't have to worry about getting the TC back on the input shaft of the trans. Only issue is getting the four bolts out of the flex plate. GOOD LUCK! they suck to get out.

make sure you remove plug on top of the passenger side of engine and remove the 4 bolts holding the torque converter to flex plate bolts before removing transmission so TC will come out with transmission

Theres only 4 bolts and you can access them from the hole on top of the bell housing. Its to the left as you look at the engine and may have a black rubber cover on it. I use a 12mm socket (make sure its a good 6pt one) and a 3/8 ratchet. It can be a pain to break them loose sometimes. What I have done is smack the handle of the ratchet with my hand or use a soft blow hammer.

6 point 12 mm socket on the 1/4" ratchet. Put a 14mm wrench on the ratchet handle to give you some leverage.

remove the intake manifold and use 1/4 socket and extension laid across the top of the block.

Only if you remove engine with TC: be sure to "seat" torque converter all the way in to transmission before reinstalling into car (rotate and wiggle to get it in)

------------------

Important Torque Values when reinstalling the engine

Heads: Loosen Headbolts and valve cover bolts in this order:

1 5 4

3 6 2

Tighten Headbolts and valve cover bolts in this order:

3 1 6

5 2 4

Following the tightening order, torque Head Bolts as following:

1. Torque All to 22 Ft Lbs

2. Torque all to 51 Ft Lbs

3. Loosen all 180 degrees

4. Loosen all 180 degrees

5. Torque Center Two bolts to 25 Ft Lbs

6. Torque Outer 4 bolts to 11 Ft Lbs

7. Tighten all bolts 90 degrees

8. Tighten all bolts 90 degrees again

Valve cover: 5ft Lbs

Intake Manifold Bolts: 18 Ft Lbs

Crankshaft Bolt: 101 Ft Lbs

Camshaft Bolts: 61 Ft Lbs

Flywheel Bolts: 55 Ft Lbs

Timing Belt Idler Bolts: 30 Ft Lbs

Timing Belt Tensioner (8mm Bolts): 18 ft lbs

Water Pump: 44 in lbs

Oil Pump: 44 in lbs

Cam Support or Rocker Shaft (8mm): 18 Ft Lbs

Transmission to engine bolts: 36.9 ft-lb

FlexPlate to Torque converter: 18FT-LB

WHEN YOU DONE REINSTALLING make sure you:

Refill Oil (If new block, use motul 10w40 breakin or similar oil)

Refill and Bleed coolant

Prime the engine (Turn over, without starting for 5-15s, 3-5 times. I do this by disconnecting Fuel Pump Fuse)

Reinsert Fuel pump fuse

Reconnect rad fan and transmission cooler lines

Reattach flexplate/transmission

Reattach engine mounts

Reattached ground wires

Reattach main harness, o2 sensor, etc.

Idle until operating temp or even longer, closely looking for leaks, smokes, unpleasant smells, or unpleasant sounds, also monitoring AP for check engine lights, misfires, or knock.

Other useful resources

Full write-ups with pictures:

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1301065

https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1435733

Other peoples' methods to pulling flex-plate:

https://www.ultimatesubaru.org/forum/topic/135780-pulling-ej22-cant-remove-flex-plate-bolts/

If you plan to tear down the engine further after removal: https://forums.nasioc.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1435733

First off just wanna say, these forums have been amazingly helpful with planning out my engine pull and rebuild. Thanks to all the subie vets who've helped and answered my questions.

This is a question I'm sure many have faced before, but I want to get some opinions of the pro engine pullers.

I'm removing the engine from my 2007 OBXT equipped with a 5EAT (unfortunately), and when doing research I found numerous threads mentioning how much of a hassle it is to remove the flex plate bolts, which allows the torque converter to remain in the transmission when the engine is pulled.

If I don't disconnect the FP, the TC will come out with the engine, where it is much easier to disconnect, but at this point I'd have to deal with all the tranny fluid that will innevitably spill all over my garage, but more importantly, I have to deal with re-seating the TC in my transmission, which I've heard is also a grueling task before I can reinsert the engine.

My question is, which is the smarter route to go? Do I remove the flexplate bolts before I remove the engine? Or remove them after, and deal with reseating the TC before reinstalling the engine?

TL;DR: Which is easier, disconnecting the flexplate from the engine while the engine is still in? Or reseating the TC with the engine out of the car?

If the thread starter want to keep the original compression ratio of his motor, he needs 2007-2009 LGT/OBXT motor. Using a EJ257 will increases his compression with his original D25 heads.

lucky for me my Outback is 2007, equipped with D25s 8)

https://legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php/05-lgt-5spd-ej257-type-ra-build-282192.html

 

See if that helps...

 

here's the service manual, http://people.csail.mit.edu/ilh/vacation/

 

I have a 2012 ej257 in my 05, I used ARP head studs and OEM gasket set. The Tuner mentioned there was no real difference in the numbers when he did a street tune after 500 miles on the new engine. He made a couple small adjustments but nothing critical. That was over 140,000 trouble frees ago.

This thread was very helpful! Thank you!

So I know 2008+ STI's use the blue coolant, and the rest use green. My question is why? What changed between these modelyears that caused the shift in formula. Is it engine related? Or radiator related? Or something else?

I ask because I am swapping an STI Type RA Shortblock into my 2007 Outback XT, but I'm keeping the stock intercooler and just about everything else and am wondering what coolant I should use after. When in doubt, run green, so if I don't receive a reasonable answer I'll probably just stick with green.

TL;DR: 2007 Outback XT with STI Shortblock, which coolant?

(also if anyone has any other advice, tips, or tricks on the swap, it would be appreciated)

Hey! I currently have 200k on my 2007 Outback XT, and I think it's about time to replace the block.

I'm planning on putting on one of the new Subaru Type RA blocks, my question is, will the stock Ej255 LGT heads bolt right up to the EJ257 STI block? and if so, do I get the headgaskets for the EJ255 or EJ257?

How thick should I go on the headgaskets to fix the high compression that comes with 255 heads on 257 shortblock?

Thanks for any help!

Hey! After 200k miles, it might finally be time to get a new shortblock for my 2007 Outback XT.

I plan to run a FP Blue turbo with FBO, and my target is around 400-450whp, since my 5EAT can't handle much more.

I've heard some argument on whether or not the Type RA Shortblock truly can hold more power or not, but it's $1000 cheaper than the IAG built block I'd go for.

My question is, can the Type RA block reliably handle my planned setup/hp? Or is it worth it to fork over the extra $ and get an IAG stage 2 block for peace of mind?

TL;DR: Type RA block or more expensive IAG block for 450whp?