Fog light problem.. help!

Both of my foglights just stopped working. I changed the fog bulb on the drivers side twice in about 3 weeks and the passenger side one just stopped working too. Whenever I turn the switch inside for the fogs, the symbol on the cluster comes on, but the lights still won't work. Any suggestions before I have to go out and fork out more cash? (I'm a broke college student lol)

This should be common sense but when this happened with my car it was my dumbass that forgot to plug them back in

Haha, I made sure I plugged mine back in. I just don't know what's causing it to blow out every 2 weeks.

you touched the lightbulb glass with your fingers

I actually might have. Can I use latex free gloves and put them in?

Sure you can.

 

I actually just put in a set of Hella 85 watters (amber/yellow) yesterday - they came packaged with their own little plastic-baggie "condoms" over the bulbs. Plugged her in, then took off the "condom," then plugged in the light. Perfect.

 

Twice in three weeks.....

 

Have you seen rain during those three weeks?

 

Maybe there's a short in your wiring?

.............

 

I actually just put in a set of Hella 85 watters (amber/yellow) yesterday...................

 

Is this in your stock LGT fogs?

 

As you probably already know, D. Stern says Hella lamps are excellent, but Hella bulbs (from Korea and China) are junk.

 

I'm thinking of putting some 85W Narva Rally Gold bulbs in my stock fogs, but I haven't measured the wire gauge in the stock harness to see if it is up to the challenge of a 50% increase in electrical currrent.

 

The Narva is supposedly a high quality, made in Germany bulb, but even so, it only has a minimum rated life span of 100 hours

 

From what others here have stated, the projector fog can handle the extra heat.

^ Yes, in the stockers.

 

And yep, the blub quality issue....that's why I bought two sets. Got them for cheap. My Narva Golds, 55 watters, have been in for quite a while now, and are still going strong. I just wanted to play with something, that's all.

 

I'm giving the 85W a test. Ran them in the driveway for about 10 minutes last night, nothing seems awry, in so far as I've poked around. Nothing was actively smoking......yet. (Though if you knew me better, bruddah, you would not think that was so funny!)

 

I gave her a quick walk-around, with my wife's car being the down-road (and slightly downhill) target. Given my current aiming, I don't think I'll ever get flashed, but still, I wanted to be sure.

 

In terms of the housing, I'm not that worried. I think that Deer Killer's run a set of 100Ws in there, for a couple of years now, and he hasn't melted anything, yet. I'd assume his wiring's fine, too, but I didn't want to push it that far.

Yes, I remember reading DK's comments about running 100W bulbs without a problem. Then on the other hand there was the fellow who seemed to have burned a hole in his fog lamp! He doesn't say what wattage bulbs he was running:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=77038&highlight=100W

 

If he was running a 130W bulb, I can see how this could happen.

^ Holy yikes!!!

...........I'm giving the 85W a test. Ran them in the driveway for about 10 minutes last night, nothing seems awry, in so far as I've poked around. Nothing was actively smoking......yet. (Though if you knew me better, bruddah, you would not think that was so funny!)..........

.........

 

If you are going to run the 85W bulbs, you should seriously consider installing a relay in the engine compartment and running the fogs off of that.The OEM relay can be used to actuate the newly installed relay.

 

I stuck my head under the dash and took a look at the wiring on the OEM fog relay, and was not pleased at what I saw. For some strange reason, Subaru has chosen to use undersized wire for the "power" side of the relay. Based on my measurements of the wire OD, and referencing the Wire Table in the FSM, these wires are rated at a maximum of only 7A (at 104 degF). These power wires are no larger than the wires on the solenoid side of the relay, where the load is 1/100 of what it is on the power side! A 7A rating is good for a pair of 35W bulbs (5.3A), marginal for a pair of 55W bulbs (8.3A), and unacceptable for a pair of 85W bulbs (12.8A). It appears that these power wires has been sized by Subaru electrical engineers for a pair of 35W fog lamp bulbs. I am left wondering if this wire undersizing is part of the reason the OEM fogs are such lackluster performers.

 

I haven't measured the wires near the fog lamps yet, to see if they are adequate for 85W bulbs (or even for 55W bulbs). If they have an OD of 2.0 mm or higher, they will be OK.

^ That's it, I officially hate you. Now I have to do more work.

 

Thanks for the heads-up - I'm going to print out your post, combine it with the Vacation Pix, and take a detailed look-see and wire up something better.

 

Glad you took the time to troubleshoot for me, before anything *did* start smoking. I owe ya!

 

I'm due to jackstand her for her winter clean-out and OCI, this'll be a good second project, with the splash-tray pulled. Current weather reports do not have foul-weather in the forecast through next weekend, so I think I'm good-to-go with this project either this weekend or the next.

 

Thanks again!

 

----

 

OK - dumb totally-bio-I-took-physics-for-poets (hence the "nothing smoking = everything OK" outlook) question: do you have a wiring gauge recommendation?

 

Second dumb question (and by dumb, you'll see exactly how dumb I am, in actually asking this) - what you're saying above is that I should power the fogs off the aftermarket relay (i.e. cut -and- re-splice in the wiring), with more robust wiring, but trigger it from engine compartment lead of the OEM relay, correct?

...............OK - dumb totally-bio-I-took-physics-for-poets (hence the "nothing smoking = everything OK" outlook) question: do you have a wiring gauge recommendation?

 

Second dumb question (and by dumb, you'll see exactly how dumb I am, in actually asking this) - what you're saying above is that I should power the fogs off the aftermarket relay (i.e. cut -and- re-splice in the wiring), with more robust wiring, but trigger it from engine compartment lead of the OEM relay, correct?

 

From looking at the wiring diagrams, this is what I have learned. On the drivers side of the engine compartment is where you will find the wiring harness that contains the blue power wire (20 or 22 AWG) from the OEM fog relay. Cut that wire, and connect it to terminal 86 of the new relay. There is a space between the battery and the fender, where the relay can be mounted.

 

In this same area, you will also find the white/blue and white wire from the LH fog and RH fog. Cut these wires, and connect them to terminal 87 of the new relay. I am not yet sure if these two wires are of adequate size to support 6.4 amps. If you measure the OD of these wires (conductor + insulation) and it measures at least 2.0 mm, then the FSM states they are good for a 12A load. I will try to measure those wires today or tomorrow.

 

Use a diode protected or resistor protected relay. OEM relays are resistor protected. If you use a diode protected relay, splice a 1A or 2A fuse into the blue wire, to protect the harness in case the diode fails.

 

For the wire between the battery and terminal 30 on the the new relay, use at least 14 AWG, with a 15A fuse. The ground wire, from terminal 85, can be as small as 22 AWG, since it only sees a small load, around 50 mA.

 

I plan on doing this in a few days. I think it will beneficial, even with stock 55W bulbs. But I also am going to experiment with some Narva 85W H3 bulbs, if the white/blue and white wires are of adequate size. I am not up for a total rewire job.

............I am not yet sure if these two wires are of adequate size to support 6.4 amps. If you measure the OD of these wires (conductor + insulation) and it measures at least 2.0 mm, then the FSM states they are good for a 12A load. I will try to measure those wires today or tomorrow........

 

I measured those wires, at 1.8mm OD, which corresponds to a conductor size of 0.3 sq mm. This is close to 22 AWG. This size wire has a max current rating of 7A at 104 degF, which means it is adequate for the 4.2A current of a 55W bulb, but marginal for the 6.4A current of a 85W bulb.

 

I wouldn't expect this wire to overheat and cause a fire with a 85W bulb, but it does cause a greater than desirable voltage drop. A 2m length of this wire, with a 6.4A load, will cause a voltage drop of around 0.8V:eek:

*MUCH* owed.

 

Will-update when project's completed! I hope to get to this this weekend, but definitely the next otherwise.

 

Still no foul-weather in the forecast. Good news.

 

Thanks yet again!

.......... I hope to get to this this weekend, but definitely the next otherwise......

 

Me too. While the garage temp is still in the low 50s. The most difficult part will be locating the wires in the harness, I think. After that, it's all gravy.

 

After installing the relay, and 85W bulbs, I am going to try measuring the voltage near the bulb (kind of a PITA, given the limited space there) with the engine running. Ideally, want at least 13.2V at the bulb (to get the rated lumen output) but no more than 14V (to maximize bulb life). The voltage regulator keeps the system at 14.1V - 14.8V, at 68 degF. In winter, the system voltage will go higher. I recall seeing a little over 15V on my Prosport voltmeter last winter, right after starting on a cold morning.

TSi, here is where you will find the wires, in the drivers side wheel well

 

 

 

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_ev4vX_TRdhQ/SQ0dBK5-0sI/AAAAAAAAAHw/_ndacVfAdms/s800/DSC00006.JPG

^ This is going to be fun....

 

So that's F109 (from WI-193 - aka 50 - Front Wiring Harness) that you've highlighted there, correct? Wow, I thought it would run much closer to the firewall. Thanks for that! You just saved me quite a few minutes of mindless head-scratching!

 

Reviewing your posts here, it looks like I should be looking at WI-144 (23 - Fog Light Wiring System) more, and using that as the better guide.

 

I've pulled off all the necessary pages from the Vacation Pix, I think, onto my thumb-drive so I can go print it out. I am now in the process of doing the same with your posts here.

 

Again, much owed for both the guidance, as well as the tech-knowledge and know-how, which is something that I sorely lack!

 

Physics for Poets.

 

I knew I shouldn't have taken the lazy route.

 

 

 

Man, you're WAY dedicated to these lighting projects. Thanks again for saving my butt. I was simply satisfied that nothing was smoking.

F109 and the other connector B360 are buried inside the engine fuse/relay box, I believe (after spending a 1/2 hour in a futile search). But once you remove the battery, tire, wheel well liner, and about 6" of corrugated loom, you will have easy access to the white and white/blue wires from the fog lamps. Sounds like a lot to do, but its a heck of a lot easier than changing spark plugs:lol:

 

In my picture I have already cut those wires. The two cut wires you see hanging out at the bottom of the harness are from the fogs and will be connected to terminal 87 (i.e. load terminal) on the new relay. Incidentally, after cutting those wires and looking at the conductor, they look like they are 18 AWG or slightly smaller, and not 22 AWG like the FSM states. They should be fine with 85W bulbs.

 

The cut white wire stub you see at the top of the harness in my photo (horizontally positioned) eventually connects to the blue wire from the OEM relay, somewhere in the fuse/relay box. That stub will connect to terminal 86 on the new relay, and actuate the new relay. No need to actually find the blue wire in the harness, as both the white stub and white/blue stub are already connected to it.

.........Reviewing your posts here, it looks like I should be looking at WI-144 (23 - Fog Light Wiring System) more, and using that as the better guide.......

 

That is correct:)

^ I really can't believe how out-of-scale that drawing of the front wiring harness is, in the Vacation Pix. I think Anna might have been able to do a better job, drawing it in-situ.

 

 

F....but its a heck of a lot easier than changing spark plugs:lol:

 

^ OK, that is *NOT* funny.

 

In my picture I have already cut those wires. The two cut wires you see hanging out at the bottom of the harness are from the fogs and will be connected to terminal 87 (i.e. load terminal) on the new relay. Incidentally, after cutting those wires and looking at the conductor, they look like they are 18 AWG or slightly smaller, and not 22 AWG like the FSM states. They should be fine with 85W bulbs.

 

^ Much appreciated for the text.

 

Also, heck, given your pursuit of this, I'm still inclined to do the relay. I'm glad that I should be fine, and that indeed, I'm not smoking anything underhood and melting together wiring - but still, having a bit of a safety margin, as well as hopefully increasing output, is definitely a good thing.

 

You really should put this together into a "how-to/walkthrough."

 

The cut white wire stub you see at the top of the harness in my photo (horizontally positioned)

 

^ Holy cow, I almost missed that!

 

No need to actually find the blue wire in the harness, as both the white stub and white/blue stub are already connected to it.

 

Thankyee.

.............I'm still inclined to do the relay. I'm glad that I should be fine, and that indeed, I'm not smoking anything underhood and melting together wiring - but still, having a bit of a safety margin, as well as hopefully increasing output, is definitely a good thing......

 

The white and white/blue wires appear to be appropriately sized (0.85 sq mm, based on strand OD and strand count), even for 85W bulbs, and will have a good safety margin. However, the single blue wire from the OEM relay will be asked to carry 170W, and at that load it will have little or no safety margin, in my estimation.

..........You really should put this together into a "how-to/walkthrough.".............

 

I really don't think anyone else would be interested. Cause if it ain't HID, it ain't cool.

I fixed my fogs =) Coincidentally one was just burned out and the other one looked plain retarded. Is there any way that I can make my foglights independent without installing so much crap? Like is there a way where I can just cut a wire or something to make it independent?

I fixed my fogs =) .........Is there any way that I can make my foglights independent without installing so much crap? Like is there a way where I can just cut a wire or something to make it independent?

 

Cut one wire (blue with white stripe), connect it to another:

 

http://www.legacygt.com/forums/showthread.php?t=10409&highlight=fog+mod